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Gerald Honigman has just published a major book, "QUEST FOR JUSTICE", the result of decades of study on the Middle east.

Jerry was denied a PhD because he was too pro-Israel. But he wasn’t daunted and went on to crown his years of study with this book rather than a PhD.

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Jerusalem Posts :: View topic - How Strong Is the Arab Claim to Palestine?
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How Strong Is the Arab Claim to Palestine?
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Nannette



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:48 am    Post subject: How Strong Is the Arab Claim to Palestine? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

By Lawrence Auster

There is a myth hanging over all discussion of the Palestinian problem: the myth that this land was "Arab" land taken from its native inhabitants by invading Jews. Whatever may be the correct solution to the problems of the Middle East, let's get a few things straight:

* As a strictly legal matter, the Jews didn't take Palestine from the Arabs; they took it from the British, who exercised sovereign authority in Palestine under a League of Nations mandate for thirty years prior to Israel's declaration of independence in 1948. And the British don't want it back.

* If you consider the British illegitimate usurpers, fine. In that case, this territory is not Arab land but Turkish land, a province of the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years until the British wrested it from them during the Great War in 1917. And the Turks don't want it back.

* If you look back earlier in history than the Ottoman Turks, who took over Palestine over in 1517, you find it under the sovereignty of the yet another empire not indigenous to Palestine: the Mamluks, who were Turkish and Circassian slave-soldiers headquartered in Egypt. And the Mamluks don't even exist any more, so they can't want it back.

So, going back 800 years, there's no particularly clear chain of title that makes Israel's title to the land inferior to that of any of the previous owners. Who were, continuing backward:

* The Mamluks, already mentioned, who in 1250 took Palestine over from:
* The Ayyubi dynasty, the descendants of Saladin, the Kurdish Muslim leader who in 1187 took Jerusalem and most of Palestine from:

* The European Christian Crusaders, who in 1099 conquered Palestine from:

* The Seljuk Turks, who ruled Palestine in the name of:

* The Abbasid Caliphate of Baghdad, which in 750 took over the sovereignty of the entire Near East from:

* The Umayyad Caliphate of Damascus, which in 661 inherited control of the Islamic lands from

* The Arabs of Arabia, who in the first flush of Islamic expansion conquered Palestine in 638 from:

* The Byzantines, who (nice people—perhaps it should go to them?) didn't conquer the Levant, but, upon the division of the Roman Empire in 395, inherited Palestine from:

* The Romans, who in 63 B.C. took it over from:

* The last Jewish kingdom, which during the Maccabean rebellion from 168 to 140 B.C. won control of the land from:

* The Hellenistic Greeks, who under Alexander the Great in 333 B.C. conquered the Near East from:

* The Persian empire, which under Cyrus the Great in 639 B.C. freed Jerusalem and Judah from:

* The Babylonian empire, which under Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B.C. took Jerusalem and Judah from:

* The Jews, meaning the people of the Kingdom of Judah, who, in their earlier incarnation as the Israelites, seized the land in the 12th and 13th centuries B.C. from:

* The Canaanites, who had inhabited the land for thousands of years before they were dispossessed by the Israelites.

As the foregoing suggests, any Arab claim to sovereignty based on inherited historical control will not stand up. Arabs are not native to Palestine, but are native to Arabia, which is called Arab-ia for the breathtakingly simple reason that it is the historic home of the Arabs. The terroritories comprising all other "Arab" states outside the Arabian peninsula—including Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Tunisia, and Algeria, as well as the entity now formally under the Palestinian Authority—were originally non-Arab nations that were conquered by the Muslim Arabs when they spread out from the Arabian peninsula in the first great wave of jihad in the 7th century, defeating, mass-murdering, enslaving, dispossessing, converting, or reducing to the lowly status of dhimmitude millions of Christians and Jews and destroying their ancient and flourishing civilizations. Prior to being Christian, of course, these lands had even more ancient histories. Pharaonic Egypt, for example, was not an Arab country through its 3,000 year history.

The recent assertion by the Palestinian Arabs that they are descended from the ancient Canaanites whom the ancient Hebrews displaced is absurd in light of the archeological evidence. There is no record of the Canaanites surviving their destruction in ancient times. History records literally hundreds of ancient peoples that no longer exist. The Arab claim to be descended from Canaanites is an invention that came after the 1964 founding of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the same crew who today deny that there was ever a Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Prior to 1964 there was no "Palestinian" people and no "Palestinian" claim to Palestine; the Arab nations who sought to overrun and destroy Israel in 1948 planned to divide up the territory amongst themselves. Let us also remember that prior to the founding of the state of Israel in 1948, the name "Palestinian" referred to the Jews of Palestine.

In any case, today's "Palestine," meaning the West Bank and Gaza, is, like most of the world, inhabited by people who are not descendants of the first human society to inhabit that territory. This is true not only of recently settled countries like the United States and Argentina, where European settlers took the land from the indigenous inhabitants several hundred years ago, but also of ancient nations like Japan, whose current Mongoloid inhabitants displaced a primitive people, the Ainu, aeons ago. Major "native" tribes of South Africa, like the Zulu, are actually invaders from the north who arrived in the 17th century. India's caste system reflects waves of fair-skinned Aryan invaders who arrived in that country in the second millennium B.C. One could go on and on.

The only nations that have perfect continuity between their earliest known human inhabitants and their populations of the present day are Iceland, parts of China, and a few Pacific islands. The Chinese case is complicated by the fact that the great antiquity of Chinese civilization has largely erased the traces of whatever societies preceded it, making it difficult to reconstruct to what extent the expanding proto-Chinese displaced (or absorbed) the prehistoric peoples of that region. History is very sketchy in regard to the genealogies of ancient peoples. The upshot is that "aboriginalism"—the proposition that the closest descendants of the original inhabitants of a territory are the rightful owners—is not tenable in the real world. It is not clear that it would be a desirable idea even if it were tenable. Would human civilization really be better off if there had been no China, no Japan, no Greece, no Rome, no France, no England, no Ireland, no United States?

Back to the Arabs

I have no problem recognizing the legitimacy of the Arabs' tenure in Palestine when they had it, from 638 to 1099, a period of 461 years out of a history lasting 5,000 years. They took Palestine by military conquest, and they lost it by conquest, to the Christian Crusaders in 1099. Of course, military occupation by itself does not determine which party rightly has sovereignty in a given territory. Can it not be said that the Arabs have sovereign rights, if not to all of Israel, then at least to the West Bank, by virtue of their majority residency in that region from the early Middle Ages to the present?

To answer that question, let's look again at the historical record. Prior to 1947, as we've discussed, Palestine was administered by the British under the Palestine Mandate, the ultimate purpose of which, according to the Balfour Declaration, was the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. In 1924 the British divided the Palestine Mandate into an Arabs-only territory east of the Jordan, which became the Kingdom of Trans-Jordan, and a greatly reduced Palestine Mandate territory west of the Jordan, which was inhabited by both Arabs and Jews.

Given the fact that the Jews and Arabs were unable to coexist in one state, there had to be two states. At the same time, there were no natural borders separating the two peoples, in the way that, for example, the Brenner Pass has historically marked the division between Latin and Germanic Europe. Since the Jewish population was concentrated near the coast, the Jewish state had to start at the coast and go some distance inland. Exactly where it should have stopped, and where the Arab state should have begun, was a practical question that could have been settled in any number of peaceful ways, almost all of which the Jews would have accepted. The Jews' willingness to compromise on territory was demonstrated not only by their acquiescence in the UN's 1947 partition plan, which gave them a state with squiggly, indefensible borders, but even by their earlier acceptance of the 1937 Peel Commission partition plan, which gave them nothing more than a part of the Galilee and a tiny strip along the coast. Yet the Arab nations, refusing to accept any Jewish sovereignty in Palestine even if it was the size of a postage stamp, unanimously rejected the 1937 Peel plan, and nine years later they violently rejected the UN's partition plan as well. When the Arabs resorted to arms in order to wipe out the Jews and destroy the Jewish state, they accepted the verdict of arms. They lost that verdict in 1948, and they lost it again in 1967, when Jordan, which had annexed the West Bank in 1948 (without any objections from Palestinian Arabs that their sovereign nationhood was being violated), attacked Israel from the West Bank during the Six Day War despite Israel's urgent pleas that it stay out of the conflict. Israel in self-defense then captured the West Bank. The Arabs thus have no grounds to complain either about Israel's existence (achieved in '48) or about its expanded sovereignty from the river to the sea (achieved in '67).

The Arabs have roiled the world for decades with their furious protest that their land has been "stolen" from them. One might take seriously such a statement if it came from a pacifist people such as the Tibetans, who had quietly inhabited their land for ages before it was seized by the Communist Chinese in 1950. The claim is laughable coming from the Arabs, who in the early Middle Ages conquered and reduced to slavery and penury ancient peoples and civilizations stretching from the borders of Persia to the Atlantic; who in 1947 rejected an Arab state in Palestine alongside a Jewish state and sought to obliterate the nascent Jewish state; who never called for a distinct Palestinian Arab state until the creation of the terrorist PLO in 1964—sixteen years after the founding of the state of Israel; and who to this moment continue to seek Israel's destruction, an object that would be enormously advanced by the creation of the Arab state they demand. The Arab claim to sovereign rights west of the Jordan is only humored today because of a fatal combination of world need for Arab oil, leftist Political Correctness that has cast the Israelis as "oppressors," and, of course, good old Jew-hatred.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14858
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Starlight



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:07 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

A long post from a well known author wont change things . There were some jews in Palestine during the British mandate but a very few . There were many more Muslim and Christian Palestinians living there whether this author likes it or not . Many books and authors have the numbers and statistics . who are you trying to kidd or convince ?
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Nannette



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:13 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

starlight wrote:
A long post from a well known author wont change things . There were some jews in Palestine during the British mandate but a very few . There were many more Muslim and Christian Palestinians living there whether this author likes it or not . Many books and authors have the numbers and statistics . who are you trying to kidd or convince ?


Starlight - can you provide any evidence to show there were more Muslim and Christians living in the region during the British mandate and the Ottoman empire?

We know about the Hebron massacre and expulsions of Jews and the Jerusalem massacre with expulsion of Jews.

I just need to see what evidence you have...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:44 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nannette wrote:


Starlight - can you provide any evidence to show there were more Muslim and Christians living in the region during the British mandate and the Ottoman empire?



Total Muslim Jewish Christian Other
1922 752,048 589,177(78%) 83,790(11%) 71,464(10%) 7,617(1%)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Population_of_the_British_Mandate_of_Palestine


I have so many other sources that say the same ( I wont post the Palestinian sites , even though you quote from Jewish sites )

(expecting you as usual to find something wrong with the wikipedia as well) it is not a Muslim site everyone knows that .
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Nannette



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:50 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

starlight wrote:
Nannette wrote:


Starlight - can you provide any evidence to show there were more Muslim and Christians living in the region during the British mandate and the Ottoman empire?



Total Muslim Jewish Christian Other
1922 752,048 589,177(78%) 83,790(11%) 71,464(10%) 7,617(1%)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Population_of_the_British_Mandate_of_Palestine


I have so many other sources that say the same ( I wont post the Palestinian sites , even though you quote from Jewish sites )

(expecting you as usual to find something wrong with the wikipedia as well) it is not a Muslim site everyone knows that .


That was from the British Mandate and not from the Ottoman Empire... Question
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:19 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Starlight. Since you seem to be interested in population figures, maybe you can tell me what the Jewish population of Iraq was in 1947 compared with today? What do you think happened to all those Jews? Why do you think it is OK to ethnically cleanse Jews from a land but not Arabs?
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human



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:23 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

BIG wrote:
Starlight. Since you seem to be interested in population figures, maybe you can tell me what the Jewish population of Iraq was in 1947 compared with today? What do you think happened to all those Jews? Why do you think it is OK to ethnically cleanse Jews from a land but not Arabs?



WE SEEK JUSTICE.

In 1948, nearly 900,000 Jews -- indigenous to the Middle East and North Africa -- lived in what are now known as the "Arab States."

Today, 99% of these ancient Jewish communities no longer exist in the lands where we lived for thousands of years.

Arab governments forced us to leave, confiscated our property and stripped us of our citizenship.
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Starlight



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:08 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

BIG wrote:
Starlight. Since you seem to be interested in population figures, maybe you can tell me what the Jewish population of Iraq was in 1947 compared with today? What do you think happened to all those Jews? Why do you think it is OK to ethnically cleanse Jews from a land but not Arabs?




I know Israel needed as many as possible to make Israel a reality, the closer the better . Some may have had problems , some were forced to leave, some wanted to make a better life in the west for themsevles or settle in Israel .

Quote!" Doctors, social workers and nurses worked together to kidnap 600 Yemeni-Jewish babies, telling their parents they had died and giving them to childless Ashkenazi couples. "


http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1997/283/283p19.htm

(under tell us truth on stolen children)

http://www.uri-geller.com/articles/jewish/jt1.htm

They also did not have much luck either in the States (NO black, Dogs or Jews ) or Europe . So that s why T.Herlz was trying to figure out a permanent home either in Namibia, Argentina , Cyprus or Palestine .
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Starlight



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:22 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nannette wrote:


That was from the British Mandate and not from the Ottoman Empire... Question


Quote:
In 1880, Arab Palestinians constituted about 95 percent of the total population of 450,000


Under Ottoman Rule


http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761558705/Palestine.html
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Starlight, maybe if you take your time reading the following articles, plus the bibliography that goes with them, you'll find out more:

Ottoman Rule
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Ottoman.html

Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
http://www.meforum.org/article/522

And regarting Deir Yassin, it's a very long article, but here's part of it:

Deir Yassin
http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/deiryassin.html

1948 Arab Refugees
http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/refugees.html

THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE:

"Even amidst the violent attacks launched against us for months past, we call upon the sons of the Arab people dwelling in Israel to keep the peace and to play their part in building the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its institutions, provisional and permanent.

"We extend the hand of peace and good-neighborliness to all the States around us and to their people, and we call upon them to cooperate in mutual helpfulness with the independent Jewish nation in its Land. The State of Israel is prepared to make its contribution in a concerted effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East."

- David Ben-Gurion, in Israel's Proclamation of Independence, read on May 14, 1948, moments before the 6 surrounding Arab armies, trained and armed by the British, invaded the day-old Jewish microstate, with the stated goal of extermination.


"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is regrettable".
- by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, in March 1976


"The first group of our fifth column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere. . . . At the first sign of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle."
- Ash Shalab (Jaffa newspaper), January 30, 1948


"The Arab streets are curiously deserted and, ardently following the poor example of the more moneyed class there has been an exodus from Jerusalem too, though not to the same extent as in Jaffa and Haifa."
- London Times, May 5, 1948


"The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the 'Zionist gangs' very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile."
- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, in the Beirut newspaper Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948


"Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the -Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.. . . It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."
- The London weekly Economist, October 2, 1948


"It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem."
- Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949


"This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country."
- Edward Atiyah (then Secretary of the Arab League Office in London) in The Arabs (London, 1955), p. 183


"The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city...By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa.".
- Time, May 3, 1948, p. 25


The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.
- Kenneth Bilby, in New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31


I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem, [Daily Telegraph, September 6, 19481
- Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, in the Beirut newspaper, Daily Telegraph, September 6, 1948


The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.
- Falastin (Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949


We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down.
- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, quoted in Sir Am Nakbah ("The Secret Behind the Disaster") by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952


The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade. . . . He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean. . . Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down.
- Habib Issa, Secretary General of the Arab League (Azzam Pasha's successor), in the newspaper Al Hoda, June 8, 1951


Some of the Arab leaders and their ministers in Arab capitals . . . declared that they welcomed the immigration of Palestinian Arabs into the Arab countries until they saved Palestine. Many of the Palestinian Arabs were misled by their declarations.... It was natural for those Palestinian Arabs who felt impelled to leave their country to take refuge in Arab lands . . . and to stay in such adjacent places in order to maintain contact with their country so that to return to it would be easy when, according to the promises of many of those responsible in the Arab countries (promises which were given wastefully), the time was ripe. Many were of the opinion that such an opportunity would come in the hours between sunset and sunrise.
- Arab Higher Committee, in a memorandum to the Arab League, Cairo, 1952, quoted in The Refugee in the World, by Joseph B. Schechtman, 1963


"The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."
- from the Jordan daily Ad Difaa, September 6, 1954


"The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war."
- General Glubb Pasha, in the London Daily Mail on August 12, 1948


"The Arab exodus from other villages was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews"
- Yunes Ahmed Assad, refugee from the town of Deir Yassin, in Al Urdun, April 9, 1953


"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel."
- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, according to Rev. Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949


"Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe. [However] ...A large road convoy, escorted by [British] military . . . left Haifa for Beirut yesterday. . . . Evacuation by sea goes on steadily. ...[Two days later, the Jews were] still making every effort to persuade the Arab populace to remain and to settle back into their normal lives in the towns... [as for the Arabs,] another convoy left Tireh for Transjordan, and the evacuation by sea continues. The quays and harbor are still crowded with refugees and their household effects, all omitting no opportunity to get a place an one of the boats leaving Haifa.""
- Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz


"The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce they rather preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town. This is in fact what they did."
- Jamal Husseini, Acting Chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee, told to the United Nations Security Council, quoted in the UNSC Official Records (N. 62), April 23, 1948, p. 14


"the military and civil authorities and the Jewish representative expressed their profound regret at this grave decision [to evacuate]. The [Jewish] Mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation to reconsider its decision"
- The Arab National Committee of Haifa, told to the Arab League, quoted in The Refugee in the World, by Joseph B. Schechtman, 1963


"...our city flourished and developed for the good of both Jewish and Arab residents ... Do not destroy your homes with your own hands; do not bring tragedy upon yourselves by unnecessary evacuation and self-imposed burdens. By moving out you will be overtaken by poverty and humiliation. But in this city, yours and ours, Haifa, the gates are open for work, for life, and for peace, for you and your families."
The Haifa Workers' Council bulletin, 28 April 1948


"...the Jewish hagana asked (using loudspeakers) Arabs to remain at their homes but the most of the Arab population followed their leaders who asked them to leave the country."
The TIMES of London, reporting events of 22.4.48


" The existence of these refugees is a direct result of the Arab States' opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously, and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs.
...The flight of Arabs from the territory allotted by the UN for the Jewish state began immediately after the General Assembly decision at the end of November 1947. This wave of emigration, which lasted several weeks, comprised some thirty thousand people, chiefly well-to-do-families."

- Emil Ghory, secretary of the Arab High Council, Lebanese daily Al-Telegraph, 6 Sept 1948


"Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return."
- Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, The Memoirs of Haled al Azm, (Beirut, 1973), Part 1, pp. 386-387


"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave... We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave... We have rendered them dispossessed... We have accustomed them to begging... We have participated in lowering their moral and social level... Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon... men, women and children - all this in service of political purposes..."
- Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war [note: same person as above]


"As early as the first months of 1948 the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property."

- bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957

One morning in April 1948, Dr. Jamal woke us to say that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), led by the Husseinis, had warned Arab residents of Talbieh to leave immediately. The understanding was that the residents would be able to return as conquerors as soon as the Arab forces had thrown the Jews out. Dr. Jamal made the point repeatedly that he was leaving because of the AHC's threats, not because of the Jews, and that he and his frail wife had no alternative but to go.
Commentary Magazine -- January 2000, http://www.commentarymagazine.com/0001/letters.html
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:52 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

starlight wrote:
BIG wrote:
Starlight. Since you seem to be interested in population figures, maybe you can tell me what the Jewish population of Iraq was in 1947 compared with today? What do you think happened to all those Jews? Why do you think it is OK to ethnically cleanse Jews from a land but not Arabs?




I know Israel needed as many as possible to make Israel a reality, the closer the better . Some may have had problems , some were forced to leave, some wanted to make a better life in the west for themsevles or settle in Israel .

Quote!" Doctors, social workers and nurses worked together to kidnap 600 Yemeni-Jewish babies, telling their parents they had died and giving them to childless Ashkenazi couples. "


http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1997/283/283p19.htm

(under tell us truth on stolen children)

http://www.uri-geller.com/articles/jewish/jt1.htm

They also did not have much luck either in the States (NO black, Dogs or Jews ) or Europe . So that s why T.Herlz was trying to figure out a permanent home either in Namibia, Argentina , Cyprus or Palestine .



Are you talking about the same Yemen I know?

Where if you see an Arab on the roof of his house and you tell him "You are "Yahody" Jewish if you don't throw yourself...

And he does, just he doesn't want to dirty his Islamic name...

If the Yemenis told the adoptive parents that the babies' parent are dead, then they must killed them...

After all that was the last word of their prophet, isn't it.

(21:109): “But if they (disbelievers, idolaters, Jews, Christians, polytheists, etc.) turn away (from Islâmic Monotheism) say (to them O Muhammad SAW): "I give you a notice (of war as) to be known to us all alike. And I know not whether that which you are promised (i.e. the torment or the Day of Resurrection) is near or far.”

(25:52): “So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost endeavor, with (the Qur'ân).”
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Starlight



Joined: Sep 03, 2004
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:20 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nannette wrote:
Starlight, maybe if you take your time reading the following articles, plus the bibliography that goes with them, you'll find out more:

Ottoman Rule
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Ottoman.html



You may have noticed , i have not listed Palestine.com or Electronic intifada.com as my sources , to be as unbiased as possible . I quoted the Encyclopedia , cant be more unbiased ! Your link says , Jewish virtual library . Raised Eyebrow Lost interest !
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Nannette



Joined: Jul 04, 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:05 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

starlight wrote:
Nannette wrote:
Starlight, maybe if you take your time reading the following articles, plus the bibliography that goes with them, you'll find out more:

Ottoman Rule
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Ottoman.html



You may have noticed , i have not listed Palestine.com or Electronic intifada.com as my sources , to be as unbiased as possible . I quoted the Encyclopedia , cant be more unbiased ! Your link says , Jewish virtual library . Raised Eyebrow Lost interest !


I gave you a few links and there's a strong bibliography on a couple of them - the bibliography itself is worth reading.

As for electronic intifada, you'll get articles on there, but no strong bibliographies. There's a difference.
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Levi



Joined: Aug 29, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:53 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

"How Strong Is the Arab Claim to Palestine?" Not strong at all. In fact, it is insignificant.
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Nannette



Joined: Jul 04, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:15 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Jim wrote:
"How Strong Is the Arab Claim to Palestine?" Not strong at all. In fact, it is insignificant.


There is no claim, which starlight would have known from statements of the Arab refugees and politicians, if she'd have read them...
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